Where's the Money

We open with another Media Roundup, because the headlines keep coming! 

• La Movida del Agua! Altadena Water Wars is back and talking consolidation
• Mayoral race: Raman making moves, Pratt surging?, and what the latest dynamics may mean
• Governor’s race: Swalwell’s campaign ending stumble, Mahan blowing his moment, Trump endorsing Hilton, and a rapidly shifting field; Antonio and Katie making labor moves, and with Swalwell out, signs that Democrats are consolidating around Becerra but can he win?
 • Politico’s takedown of the Altadena recovery efforts and broader questions about leadership
• Politico and the Los Angeles Times both acknowledging progress is slow, while Barger continues pointing to a lack of money
• The New York Post claiming “Thousands of Permits Approved After Trump EO” and our reaction: say what now?

Where’s the Money?

We spend time breaking down the alphabet soup of recovery funding and what these tools actually mean. CDBG, TIF, DRF, CRA. 

What money exists, what money is being pursued, what money is being left on the table, and why so many leaders still seem committed to playing small ball.

We also look at the increasingly strange political reality of Barger, Bass, and… Trump? as banks begin circling the rebuild conversation in a much bigger way.

What’s Happening on the West Side

Steve walks us through developments in the Palisades and beyond, including Lindsey Horvath’s Rebuild Authority push; the latest on CRD (our take: not happening); Jeremy Padawer’s Palisades crusade; and the billions in sales tax revenue the state stands to make from the rebuild

Small Biz Shout-Outs

This week’s shout-out goes to Bar Betsy, which just opened last week two doors down from Betsy on Mariposa. An all-day concept with great pastries, brunch, lunch, girl dinner, amazing coffee, and the natural wine program you already know and love from Betsy.

We’re also shouting out June Bug Tattoo, a displaced Altadena business now located at 4315 Eagle Rock Blvd — a women-owned collective worth supporting.

And a reminder: Beautiful Altadena Office Hours continue weekly on Wednesdays from 11am to 1pm. Check our @BeautifulAltadena Instagram or Facebook group for the latest schedule and locations.

This episode was recorded on April 23, 2026. 

Transcript

Steve 0:01

Welcome back to After the Ashes, Beautiful Altadina's opinionated but well-informed podcast on disaster recovery through a public policy lens. This is episode 14 of season two. We're recording on the 23rd of April. I know we've taken a little bit of a break. This is your co-host, Steve. And we're anyway. So, all right, there we go. I tried to do it.

Shawna 0:22

It was going so well. It was going so well, Steve.

Steve 0:25

You know, I I I don't do well when people put stuff in front of me.

Shawna 0:32

That's a that is a one way of putting it. So as you mentioned, Steve, we've been gone for a bit uh between family stuff, health stuff, life stuff, rebuild stuff, lawsuit stuff, travel stuff. Um, for you and I both. I I know a few people have written like, oh my gosh, is the podcast done? Are you done? No. Oh no.

Steve 0:53

Oh no. No, no, we need to let the story develop a little bit, right?

Shawna 0:56

Exactly. Sometimes you need to just give the room a little air, right? Let it breathe. Distance mixed up profound. Like an old bottle of wine. Um, so here we are. We're back. Um, and we had a lot to talk about. We said that last month, a month ago. I know. But it's true. Well, three weeks ago, three weeks, or is it three and a half weeks ago? But here we are. We are back again. Um and we have a lot to talk about. So we're gonna get into it. We're gonna get into it fast, and we're gonna do our best to, as we keep saying, we've been saying all morning, laughing. We're gonna keep it tight, tight. We've got to keep it tight. Okay.

Steve 1:30

All right, people. You heard it here first. Shauna said she's gonna keep it tight. So now let's see how tight this is when it's all said and done.

Shawna 1:37

So we're let's kick it off with a media roundup because oh my gosh, we have uh there's been so much going on in the press the last couple weeks, the last couple days. Um, I know we have um a lot to cover. So um I think that I want to start the media piece talking about um our friends at Altadino Water Wars. Uh yeah, they changed their name.

Steve 1:58

They changed it again from the one you have here.

Shawna 2:01

I I know. Uh well, it was uh La Movida del Agua, but what it what is it now?

Steve 2:06

It's something like I I don't speak Spanish, I know French.

Shawna 2:10

Wait, hold on. I think it is La Movida de Agua.

Steve 2:13

No, it's Guerra del Uh No, that's the name of I think that's the name of the uh the writer, but not the actual post. No, the writer's Hollis Mulrain from uh or whatever his name is from it's another it's another Chinatown reference.

Shawna 2:27

It's too good. Uh for anyone who's just joining in, um, we have been talking about what's been going on with uh what we've called you know the Altadena Water Wars um amongst our water mutuals. Altadena has a very curious water system with multiple uh mutuals that are shareholder-owned effectively and board operated. Um, and it is a very curious setup. There were a lot of challenges around that, many calls for consolidation. One of the three mutuals, uh, Rubio Canyon, has made it very clear they have no interest in uh consolidation. There are a lot of thoughts that for the many reasons why that may not be the case, uh, the Lady Doth protest too much. Uh but all of that said, oh, and we we were sent, you know, anyhow. I don't know that we're gonna get into the specifics of it because um I think neither Steve nor I want to be sued, but it was shared with us some uh uh some contracts that some folks that are heading up these boards are engaged in that pretty clearly are a little bit of a contract, a conflict of interest. So no surprises there. No surprises, but uh interesting stuff. So someone has resurrected Altina Water Wars. It appears very much not to be the same person, but they are picking up on the same Chinatown references that Steve kind of uh threw out in the beginning of this podcast months ago before that Substack ever even appeared the first time where he said it was like Chinatown in the foothills. Um so yes, here we are. Um, and the first post is talking consolidation. So if anybody wants to find that, Steve, I can hear you frantically typing over there.

Steve 4:02

Hey, I've taken care of something really fast.

Shawna 4:06

Don't mind Steve actually doing his day job while we're podcasting. So for anyone who's interested, go over and read this. It's back to consolidation. Why the water mutuals must consolidate now? Will they do it? Will they not? Why won't they? Why is Rubio out of this? And I think the biggest takeaway of that thing was that um everyone is now entered into a consolidation study, you know, like the feasibility study. Like let's see what it's gonna take and how we get there. Um, I know that when I sat in a meeting with uh for with my water company, which was Las Flores, um our Las Flores board president got up there and said that the the that feasibility study could take five to seven years. Um it was very interesting. I know, right? And this is someone who wants it. Las Flores is like, yes, consolidation, they and Lincoln. But it was like, but also seven years. Um, so I thought it was very entertaining to to to hear that line, and then also to read here in this latest Substack that um uh they were like, yeah, no, it takes like one to two years. Like this is a year-long process. This whole like five years, seven years, that's just hot air for people to create more delays. And you have to ask why. Always ask why, right? We always say follow the money and ask why. Who stands to benefit?

Steve 5:22

We all know the answer, Shauna.

Shawna 5:24

I think we do too. So, folks, if you want to check that out, um, I am a uh co-author on that post on Substacks. If you go to my Substack, you can find it. Um, and it's worth it's worth taking a look at. So another that's our our hyperlocal news, other uh, you know, news stories. We were gonna touch a little bit on um, you know, some of our big elections coming up our mayoral race, our gubernatorial race. Um, wow. Uh let's start with mayoral, because that's uh well, I don't know. Actually, they're both they both have really entertaining bits. I've been watching uh Nietzsche Rahman trying, and she's you know, uh I don't think she has a chance, but I do appreciate some of the things that she's brought to light, even if it's too little too late. I I wouldn't dismiss her so fast. Okay, fair enough, fair enough.

Steve 6:10

Um I think I think everybody wants you to dismiss her because they're deathly afraid of her for so many reasons. I I just you know, Bass it's it's amazing how historically weak she is, and yet at their fear is they're unable to get anybody else. The real question is, does Spencer Pratt even get across the finish line? I don't know. I I honestly think to the Steve Garvey, right? They want that protest vote to land in Pratt. Or Trump. Well, the protest vote being like people in the valley, people in the Palisades who are frustrated with the city, who feel the city has to ban them. I mean, I drive by Langers at least three times a week, and they say CD1, which is the council district, and the mayor have abandoned them, especially in you know MacArthur Park. You know, there are areas in the city that there's tremendous frustration with the administration, in particular Bass. So Bass is really playing up the whole if you're a protest, you know, like get people to go after, you know, go to Spencer Pratt, because if Pratt wins, there's no way he wins a general. I was at an event a couple nights ago and we were talking about this, and it was for one of the candidates, and they showed the the polls show Bass, the only person Bass beats in this race is Pratt. So if it's Ramen or Adam Miller, she loses. Um and and and Ramen is the one that scares the machine because she doesn't care. Like they thought Caruso was gonna gut him. I know he didn't held a candle to Nithia. Nithya.

Shawna 7:45

I know. I I have a I don't know. I have a lot of I get she's there is no perfect politician.

Steve 7:51

Um just make but you cannot slide a file across the desk to Nithia. They try to take her down, and if they were gonna get her, they would have gotten her by now.

Shawna 8:00

Yep. I will I will say that like the thing with her that I appreciated, I heard her talking on a a podcast about um you know the city's budget, right? And we're gonna talk a little bit more about that um when we talk about you know uh some things in our next episode. So I won't get too deep into the city budget and the county budget and all that fun stuff. But she made it a point, and I think it is worth talking about while talking about these candidates, that you know, uh the city of Los Angeles and Mayor Bass signed off on our budget, knowing it would put us into significant uh deficit, that it would put deep sink us further into um the red. The city, not you live in the city. The city. Uh where many of us live uh now or have lived, right? Especially all of us native Angelinos. We've been in and out of LA and city and county and had both of those experiences and likely Pasadena too. But um again, the point she was making was that what they agreed to in that budget was, I believe, an$800 million hike. And I'll have to uh check my stats on that, but it was a big budget increase for the already number one budget line item that is the LAPD. And it is the same for us in county with um our sheriff's department, our police force gets the law enforcement, gets the lion's share. And that the bottom line was that they had more than 25,000 streetlights out, and an entire year had passed with not a single road improvement. Uh, when I mean, I was driving across the city this week and I couldn't believe in my old neighborhoods and everywhere I drive the sit the city, the streets are trash. Like how this is not destroying your vehicle is such trash. And none of that's being done because we're sending it, sending it off to the police force.

Steve 9:42

But there were no, that's that's not necessarily true. There was a again, I I don't know the specifics of it, but LA there's a lot of residents of LA that will go into the details about how bad the police force is and how they don't show up either. So I know and I'm not sure. But let's give them more money, let's just keep giving them more money. There was an article in the LA Times over the weekend about, well, first of all, they're they're below the numbers that they needed in terms of staff, and they're not they're they're cutting the police force, and it's they they're a quarter of what other comparable police forces are in comparable cities across the country relative to population. I mean, you have 8,000 or 9,000 sworn police officers for a city of 4 million people. It's that is absurd. But be that what it may, I'm not getting into police or not police, or whether you know we put too much money into our the local equivalent of the defense department. I don't want to get into that fight.

unknown 10:34

Okay.

Steve 10:34

The bottom line also is there was an article in the LA Times this weekend talking about the street situation and how there was a measure that was passed where if LA were to resurface streets, they would have to then take out bike lanes and make them bike lanes. So what they've done is they've done these, you know, repairs like they are doing right now, and they are in a situation where um, you know, that's sort of what's driving a lot of this, is that they're not going to repair the streets, they're just gonna patch them, and that's what's making the disrepair go in. At least that's what the protocol is.

Shawna 11:08

Yeah, that's without a doubt, that's part of it. Without a doubt, that's part of it. It's just giving it. But again, it doesn't change the fact that they have admittedly not touched that in a year because they have such a budget problem.

Steve 11:20

It's a pension problem. If you look at the budget and how much of that money goes to pensions versus how much goes to actual, you know, operation of the city, that's where you I think you would find the real gold. I haven't looked at this, I haven't gotten involved with the city budget. That's not my mess. I I can only take on so much right now, and that's just that's a cluster f you you know. I don't want to get involved with it.

Shawna 11:44

Yep, I'm with you. So I'm gonna say this.

Steve 11:46

Anything else you want to add? It's it's just like the schools. You know the school LA Unified School District has a bigger budget than the city of Los Angeles?

Shawna 11:54

Yeah, we've talked about this. We we covered this on an episode.

Steve 11:57

And and it's like you know, you look at that and you say, okay, but the big problem is a good chunk of that money is not going to teachers, it's going to pensions. And where do those retirees live? Not in California anymore. We're exporting all of our money, our tax dollars, to places like Idaho. I remember the LA Times had an article about this where all the police and firefighters are moving to some little town in Idaho and they're getting all of our retirement money. And it's like, what's going on here, people? This is ridiculous.

Shawna 12:26

It is ridiculous. Uh, I'm gonna keep us on top of the case. I just added. I did a little bit, a little bit, because I want to talk about Nitya. But um back to the mayoral race. Anything else you want to add before I add my final comment?

Steve 12:43

No.

Shawna 12:45

No. Well, I was just gonna say this. Um if you gauge public sentiment, and I'm talking about don't look at the post, don't look at Spencer Pratt's social media comments, don't look at the people who are in his camp, don't look at the people who are from his town, don't look at fire survivors, okay? Just look at general comments on CBS, NBC, Fox, all of our local news affiliates when they post things about this guy. The pop, the comments for him are overwhelmingly positive. And I think this is another situation like we saw with Trump in 2016, where nobody thought this clown could get, you know, this reality TV clown could get elected to president. No one. And here we are. Um, and I think that I'm not certainly not calling Spencer a Trump, you know, even though I think unfortunately some of his politics and uh policies may align with some of that. But uh I am saying that I think, you know, you people, especially our, you know, our quote unquote ant political analysts and all of our pollsters really have to be aware of how wrong they were in 2016. And I think that that may be the case again this year, and that this guy that no one thinks has a shot in hell with no experience may actually get this, and then what? And then what? Because then he's got to do the job.

Steve 14:04

So I think I think you have to understand something. Look, Los Angeles is not this country. Los Angeles is 80% Democrat. This election will be destroyed.

Shawna 14:13

But you're seeing Democrats and independents leaning to this because they have just had it.

Steve 14:17

No, and there's a large because Nithia scares him because he's a DSA, and Adam Miller can't get his campaign straight, and he doesn't have the he doesn't have the message. The thing that Spencer is doing is he's tapping into the very obvious thing that's going on with this state and this city. We are disgusted with our government. Do you know that the California Democratic Party did a survey, you know, they've been doing their survey to try to get people to leave the election. The approval rating of our government, people think our state is going in the right direction, is 30%. That is Trump territory, Shauna. That's as bad as Trump's negatives.

Shawna 14:59

Yeah, no, it is bad. I think there's no question, it's bad.

Steve 15:03

What is going on? And and you wonder why these people are getting attention. And yet the ones that should be able to do it, the ones that are trying to take that anti-establishment lane, they don't even know how to fight. The difference is is like a Spencer Pratt or even a Donald Trump, he gave people it looked like he was fighting for something, and right now they feel like look, I don't care anymore. I just need somebody to fight for me. Correct. And that's that's what the desperation is.

Shawna 15:31

Yeah, yeah. Well I think that's it. People are desperate. I think that's it. People are desperate. And so let's see where that gets to us. Gets us. It's a disaster. It is. No, it really is. There's no there's no sugarcoating it. It is.

Steve 15:45

I mean, I read Gustavo Arolano's piece about you know MacArthur Park and how the city council person down there it thinks that they're doing a good job. I was in MacArthur, I drove by it this morning. How? When? It's where mess. I I just I'm sitting there going, what world are you guys living in that you think that this is a good thing?

Shawna 16:05

It's as bad as it's ever been. It's like the walking dead down there. It it literally is. And I'm just saying, it's so dangerous. And it's been like that. It's been like that as long as I've been, I can remember being in LA. I mean, it's gotten so bad.

Steve 16:17

It's like this gotten worse falling apart everywhere.

Shawna 16:20

Okay. You we're oh my gosh, we're going down a rabbit hole. But I do want to just say, if you are listening to this and and for you too, Steve, go Google the guy with in Santa Monica who got permission to dredge MacArthur Parks Lake, got permission to dredge.

Steve 16:34

I don't even want to know.

Shawna 16:36

Oh, yeah. Uh, but then they shut him down. They had the police shut him down at the 12th hour. But they know, they know because they already know that there are multiple bodies down there.

Steve 16:44

So uh but there goes the homicide rate that has dropped in LA County, LA City this year.

Shawna 16:50

But also, how many unsolved crimes are sitting in there? How many unsolved crimes are there right across from when you're sitting at hanging out at Langers having one of the best deli sandwiches in the city?

Steve 17:01

So let's talk about the wires, all I gotta say.

Shawna 17:04

Exactly. It's the the headlines or the storylines just write themselves. Let's talk about the the other big race, right? We we gotta we need a new governor because ours was gonna be the president. So um, because you know, great hair don't care. No, great hair don't care. So let's talk about the gubernatorial race. Oh my gosh, Swalwell. So everybody knows about Swalwell now. We don't have to go length into Swalwell. Exactly. Exactly. Last time we were on here, we were talking about him like completely blowing that visit to Altadina. Um, if anyone wants a laugh, like they were the I I got served after the cry after the whole drama and implosion. I got served a video of him with his wife. It did not age well.

Steve 17:45

I saw that. George Santos put it up of all the people in the world.

Shawna 17:50

Oh my gosh. Um, you know, we've got Ma Mahan, MAGA Mahan. Apparently, people uh are calling him MAGA Mahan and his his constituents up north are not fans and think that he's in bed with all the Trump, uh, all the tech, I say the Trump bros, the Trek Tech bros. They are probably one and the same at this point. But um kind of an interesting thing uh that we can unpack a little bit. Uh Trump endorsed Hilton, Hilton, who I uh shared a stage with at that uh They Let Us Burn rally. Um my we've got you know uh some of the unions backing Antonio and Katie, but no one's even talking about Antonio and Katie because it looks like all of the establishment dems are going all in on Basera. Uh and here we are. This is how we're gonna end up with a Republican governor because you know the Republican governor. It's a hot fucking mess.

Steve 18:48

Well, look, anybody who's a reader of my Substack, and I know there are a few of you out there, it's not five anymore, it might be six or seven, know that this is a topic that I've been really keying in on. I've had multiple people say, What's your obsession with Mahan? Or Mahan or whatever his name is. I call him Mahan, it may be wrong. It's Mahan. But somebody said to me this morning, I go, if they have the last name, then how the hell are you gonna win an election? But the point is they the opportunity that Mahan had to really blow up the system was so fascinating in the last week. And he totally whipped Sean. Totally whipped. I was talking to you this morning, you know, when you're in politics, there's a lot of times you go through gates, right? You know, yeah, you know this, Sean. Like they'll test you to see what you're willing to do. When Swallow went down, the question was, what is Mahan going to do or Mahan gonna do? And everybody I know was sitting watching to see, okay, is this guy gonna actually lay the smack down or is he gonna run away? And he spent the week hemming and hawing. And really the key was, and again, the readers will know that I've been keying in on this, was on Wednesday, there was an event politico organized it up in San Francisco, and Mahan was giving the softball of all softballs, and he totally whiffed. And from there, everybody kind of rolled their eyes and said, All right, this guy doesn't have it. He didn't hit Sire when he could have, he didn't hit Porter when he could have, he could have distinguished himself as the centrist, he didn't hit the establishment, which is the real key. You had Lorena Gonzalez and the California Federation of Labor on the balls of their ass last week because they endorsed Swalwell just like SCIU, just like CTA. And you know, I don't know if people read, but Shawnee, you were in PR. When have you ever seen a poll quote in an online article by the LA Times? All the time. I've never seen one. I've never in any political.

Shawna 20:58

Oh, maybe not in that sphere. Maybe not in that sphere.

Steve 21:00

No, I've never seen a poll quote out there. Never. Not at all. Yeah. And she got one by Dakota Smith on Friday. That was CYA time. Um they had her, and and and she attacked Mayha. She attacked all those guys, calling out the tech bros, saying they don't know what they're doing. Those guys don't understand it. And you know what? She looks right. I mean, to be honest, like they missed. They swung and missed, and then they swung and missed again. And I you sent me something this morning, and I got it yesterday about Mahan's people with the IEs and him being on a call with the IE. Whether it's right or wrong, it doesn't matter. The fact remains you know, they they they messed it. And it's like, what's going on here? Like that whole thing of you know, Caruso and David Crane being on the call with Mahan or Mahan being on the call with them, that was dumb. Come on. Yeah, it was dumb. You're going for the squeaky clean shot. Yeah. I don't get it. I I and on a Zoom where you can't control who's uh you unbelievable.

Shawna 22:09

It's amateur hour. Amateur hour. I um I mean we know the guy got a new fire, he fired his campaign manager, right? He fired his campaign manager, got a new one, but you know, too little, too late, it feels like for this guy. Um, and I the most the thing that kind of struck me with all of this, I was actually looking and sharing uh with someone some old photos from 2010, my LA Street Food Fest at the Rose Bowl, the first year at the Rose Bowl, um, when uh Tony, you know, mayor Tony uh was one of my judges. And like it was right after it was the week he'd had that bike accident and broke his arm. And I thought, oh, this guy's out, but he was not. He showed up, he ate with us, he hung out, and I was looking at these photos. But it he I think you know, he was not our worst mayor, to say the least. But I what I found interesting is that he's not really in the conversation right now. You know, I don't think I don't feel like we're hearing a lot about him or from him. Like he's just like not even a serious contender. Um, so I find that to be kind of interesting. So should we move on?

Steve 23:12

This is John McCain of this election, you know.

Shawna 23:14

Yeah.

Steve 23:15

So another thing about this, you know, again, readers of my pay, my pot my substack will know. I wrote it in March, but I actually talked to somebody inside the campaign in Viragosa's Viragosa's campaign back in December. And, you know, I was it it it it it's an outgrowth of a conversation I was having in DC about Josh Shapiro and um Rama Manuel on the federal level, and the idea that they they Shapiro's probably the best of the candidates on the repo on the Democrat side, yep, but he won't get elected because he's Jewish and is his pro-Israel position. Like it's just the Democratic Party is so well the pro-Israel thing is a loser right now.

Shawna 23:55

That's that's it's it's too bad because it's so stupid. But whatever.

Steve 23:59

I I you know the activists want to make this the issue, they're gonna go with it, and you know, I can't stop what's gonna happen. But the and and and at the expense of the best betterment of the party. So yeah, when we were talking about it, I said, you know, if I was Shapiro, his shot to run is in 28, period the end. And I would just say, look, I'd use the Moses parable. I wouldn't care. Win, loser, draw, it doesn't matter. I'm there to make this a better election and let them go against me because of Israel. Let that be the issue. If that's the thing that's gonna take down the party, then let's have that conversation. Because my job is to be the leader and take the country to where it's supposed to go, right? Lead it to the promised land. Again, I didn't mean to use Moses and Israel in the same paragraph, but but the idea being like sometimes the great leaders don't get to see the fruits of their they they they they they leave it for the next group, right? Maybe it's Shapiro's job is not necessarily to be the nominee, but to bring these issues to the fore. Same with Rom. And that's what essentially what Rom Emanuel is doing right now is he's taking all these issues and bringing them to the fore for people to pay attention to. In my mind was Antonio is 72, 74 years old. He's not gonna be a two-termer. There's no need to be.

Shawna 25:15

Gosh, is he that old? I guess I mean, how could he not be? It's just I'm always blown away. I'm blown away by my own age. But yeah.

Steve 25:22

So for Antonio, the play would have been be a one-termer, say, I'm here to take to transition us from where we are to where we're gonna go. And because I don't care, I'm gonna do the things that are right for California. And my job is to be that bridge between this generation and the next.

Shawna 25:40

Because that's really itself, right? That's the opportunity, right? Yeah, absolutely.

Steve 25:44

That would have been the thing to distinguish him from everyone else and say I'm I'm it's not about vanglory, it's about capping a career that I've had where I have been a trailblazer the whole time. You know, first Latino mayor of Los Angeles in a very long time. You know, he rose up through the ranks inside the the legislature. And I mean, he took his pet hits and he kept on going. And the guy's a winner, like he's a fighter, and you gotta respect that. And that's what California needs right now is they need somebody who wants this with every ounce of their bones. Tom Steyer wants it because he can buy it, not because he's the best guy. Katie Porter wants it because what else is she gonna do? This is what she does because the Silicon Valley guys came in and said, Listen, dude, we need somebody. Can you do this? Becerra, Becerra was nowhere. He was just like, I'm gonna throw my hat in the ring, and oh my god, now Newsom's people have nobody else to go to, so they're coming to me. So again, and I'm not knocking Becerra for his capability. I'm saying, think about it. If he was the cape candidate that they're making him out to be right now, he would have been there from the start. And Antonio is the same thing. The difference is Antonio is older. And you know, I said that's why he should have done the Moses thing. He said, Taking the four-year thing. The fact he did it last week made me smile because I was right. It was just he was four months too late. Yeah, as we're gonna hear about with our supervisor in Washington, part for the course in California politics.

Shawna 27:06

Right. It's true. Uh so speaking of um all of that, let's talk about that. Um, the other major news piece that that dropped actually, was it last week? I think it was last week, was this politico piece that was uh that LA Times then echoed, right? And it was kind of it was a takedown of of the recovery that you know it's like that everyone's you know busy saying, like especially Barger on social media and at events that everything's great. They expect the federal money is gonna be here soon, everything's so great, everything's going fast. Anything that's not going fast because exactly it's because FEMA, it's because FEMA, you know, EPA Trump didn't send the money, the feds didn't send the money.

Steve 27:45

That's why But FEMA's not the money we want we want HUD money, we don't want FEMA money. The 35 billion is not that FEMA Scott.

Shawna 27:54

And um, you know, and it really it really you know put it out there. I was gonna say that, you know, there's a lot of frustrations still simmering on the ground. And um, as I I said this in in our group, and I'll say it here, it's we are long past the Kumbaya phase of the recovery. Like the neighbors are getting edgy with each other, people are getting frustrated with with, you know, especially with what's going on with all the shady contractors and and shady dumping, and um uh, but just even, you know, neighbors getting on neighbors about, you know, what's happening on their lots beyond encroachment issues and all of that and construction issues. It's also like, oh, well, now that it's been, you know, more than a year, and you're not don't know when you're if and when you're coming back, because you know, more at least half the town we know right now, half the town is in limbo. They don't have enough money, they don't have the ability to do this, they don't know what they're gonna do, or they know, but they don't have the money, or they know and or they have to wait to get to the lawsuit. Bottom line, half the town is stuck right now. I'm one of those people, right? Gotta wait, gotta wait it out, wait it out. And that means lots are just sitting. So now people who are getting back in their homes, we've got, you know, 43 new homes rebuilt in Altadena to date. Um, and you've got people, and all the people who've remained in the community are like, well, clean up your lots, clean up your lots. And of course, all of these folks who have these lots are like, you know, fuck you. The county clean up my lot. Like, how about this conversation today?

Steve 29:15

I think how when and with what money is telling about his neighbor who's asking and saying, quote, it's a fire risk. And it's like, but what fucking fire? Really? We already have that problem.

Shawna 29:25

Exactly. Like what? You're you're afraid you're gonna have a time a grass a wildfire, fire, uh wildflower uh, you know, grass fire. Come on. Um, and also if you're that concerned, if you're that concerned, go go help your neighbors, go clean it up because there's probably a reason they haven't. Um, yeah, it's it's yeah, it the frustrations are are are rough. I mean, uh, we even had, you know, we we still have the illegal dumping happening left and right. Like I said, with the shady contractor thing, there are multiple sting operations going on right now. There's so many unlocked licensed or improperly licensed uh contractors operating. Um we could we still have all the questions around the cleanup and the community safety swirling. You've you've got all of you know the same thing happening for standing homes, our schools, our commercial districts. Um gosh, you know, we let's see what else? Like we just Passover just passed, right? So, you know, we and I was noticing that, you know, there was even some anti-Semitic comments came up in our group. I I couldn't believe it. Like these are people who've been longtime members of our group, and that was happening. And okay, so I think that frustrations are really um starting to to boil over. And I think that you know, we're we're not even we're not even at that inflection point yet, but we're heading to the case.

Steve 30:39

It's what happens when you don't have leadership, you don't have vision, you don't have a correct, correct.

Shawna 30:43

Everybody's like, where's our Marshall Plan? Huh? Where's our Marshall Plan? Where is it?

Steve 30:48

Where is it? Still waiting. I've already written it. Nobody wanted to listen to it. Everybody fought me, especially over at the EF, you know, the uh Eat and Fire Collaborative. So well, you know, I think it's important to know to do this, where are you?

Shawna 31:02

Yeah, I think it's important to note with that that you know it's not necessarily everyone in the collaborative media, but there are people there that were able to kill it.

Steve 31:09

And you know what? There was a plan. There was a plan and there was a plan decided that they knew better, and their it their oops, their design, their agenda is one. So okay, you know.

Shawna 31:23

Well, we've talked about this. Whose agenda is that? I think it is the political, it is the uh nonprofit political agenda. That's what it is, because that is people don't recognize we've talked about it in the past. Your nonprofits are are a multi-billion dollar secondary shadow government with its own interests.

Steve 31:39

But Sean, this is people who don't live here, who are making these decisions, who are killing big you know, opportunities for us, and unaccountable to the community. And you know what? It's my attitude is you know what, guys, you've got you have such a great plan, you figure it out. Because we gave you the chance and you decided you knew better, then you stand up and show us what you got because I haven't seen it yet.

Shawna 32:04

I don't think anyone has anything. Um, and I think if nothing evidences that more than the uh No, there's a plan, Shauna.

Steve 32:11

There was a definite plan.

Shawna 32:12

No, they do what they wanted.

Steve 32:14

They they have a specific plan and they they're trying to get their money. Well, for their own agenda.

Shawna 32:20

Correct. For their own agenda, for their own agenda that's not ultimately not about the town or benefiting the town. Nope. They don't care. Can we talk briefly about this New York Post uh story that said thousands of of Trump? I'm sorry, thousands of permits approved after Trump executive order. I was like, what? I was like a dog trying to understand. Like, what are you talking about? Oh the New York Post and the California Post um are where I go when I need a good laugh. It's when you need a laugh, that's where you go. Do we I we I slated it for the next episode? Do we even want to dare talk about um no? We're gonna slate it for the next uh maybe it's the next, yeah, it's the next section. Let's talk about this next. Let's move on to like, where's the money? Right? This is a good segue. Where's the money, Steve? Um, so uh it this came up. This has come up a few times with people all the time. Someone I was in a meeting and someone was like, Oh, you know, we should be talking about, you know, uh CDBG money, like that just came up, CDBG money. And I was like, wait, this is like last year's conversation. Uh like I'm glad people are having these conversations. I don't say that to be dismissive in the least. I'm glad that people are having the conversations, but it is one that has kind of shifted the C the you know, as we've discussed here at length, the CDBG DR money is is not coming. Um, but I think it would be really important if we can if you if you Steve, will you indulge us, Steve, in breaking down as briefly but succinctly as we can, kind of what CDBG money is, what the TIFF money is, what you know, the DRF that's proposed is, the CRA breakdown, um, so that people kind of have uh a quick and dirty understanding of these financial mechanisms and tools and what that conversation means. Okay. In three minutes or less, please.

Steve 34:14

Okay, so you get you get you I gotta do it in three minutes, and you get a lot longer than that to do your stuff. Come on. Um, all right, CDBG is a is an appropriation that comes from Congress. So that means that Congress gives us money, it's now side the regular budget, and that money is related to a disaster um event, and it's focused on low to moderate income. And actually, I learned last week that anybody over the age of 65 automatically qualifies is considered low to moderate income. And since a huge portion of Altadena is over the age of 65, there will be a good chunk that will be able to help qualify to get the money in. 70% of the dollars that are allocated have to go to those communities that are affected. And most of it's around rebuilding infrastructure and or uh housing. So that's what CDBGDR is. So, really what it is is the county and the state are waiting or the city are waiting for that money to come in so they can rebuild however they choose to, all the infrastructure that they wanted to rebuild the infrastructure that was destroyed, even though they haven't been investing in that infrastructure for a hundred years or more. So yeah, exactly. So that's that's where the fight is. And you know, you hear the the two polls where you know the the the county's saying I or the state said I want 40 billion. The feds are saying, well, then fine, eat DEI. The reason is they're both saying these are non-negotiables. We're not even gonna start talking about anything negotiable until we get to a number that even sounds realistic. So that's what that is. Okay. Um TIF is tax increment financing. What that means is they take property tax and they will bond against the future increase. So if a property is worth$100,000 in property tax today, it's gonna be worth$200,000 tomorrow. They borrow$30,000 of that$100,000 or whatever the number is. Again, I'm just trying to make this very simple for people to understand. And that 30% is something they can use to then invest in the property, the projected property increase, to then invest in that property, to rebuild the property and make it go up in value. Uh, or you can use it to invest in infrastructure, we can then increase the value of the properties around it, i.e. We can add more piping and more sewage and you know, water so that we can increase the density, therefore increasing the value of the underlying land. That's what that's all about. Um, CRA's Community Reinvestment Act, it is a requirement of banks that do business with the Federal Reserve. To be able to grow in a community, you have to follow goals that are community reinvestment, which means you need to put your money back into community, low income, moderate income, uh, charities, et cetera. There's different buckets it comes in. Figure roughly 50% is in loans, 20% is lit on fire, and 20% is lit. Lit on fire, meaning it goes to like philanthropy. It's not, it's granted, it's not like it's going anywhere in getting a return. And then the it gets the return in the community, but not returned to the bank from the banker's perspective. And then the other 25% is in assets they try to buy. So that that's roughly how it works, is somebody explained it to me. Um what else did you ask about?

Shawna 37:16

So also about TIFF money, CRA money, CRA money.

Steve 37:22

Yep, we talked about that. Okay. And I think it was those are your main buckets, and then the disaster investment fund, which we came up with. Exactly. Which is a model where we were basically saying California has 15% of its overall income tax revenue comes from capital gains. And so if let's just say I think it's 15%, or that or we get 15%. Either way, I the number works out to about 15 to 20 billion a year comes into California. That's income tax based on capital gains. So, you know, you sell your shares in a company, that's a capital gain. You sell your house and then asset appreciation or your business, that is a that's a capital gain. So the idea being that in California, we treated it in federally we treat it as a different tax category. It's taxed at 20%, and instead of regular income tax, in California, we treat it as income tax. So what I said was, well, since capital gain, if I was an investor and I had to take my money, I can either take it out of California, I can reinvest in California. I could pay you the tax today, or I can defer the tax for seven years and then allow that money to grow tax-free essentially, or deferred tax, and then use that, pay the tax in seven years, and then keep rolling over the profits. That becomes an investment tool to keep money in California. And, you know, one of the big fears we have is that money is going to flee California, especially with things like the billionaires tax and other things that we're talking about. So it also gives us a chance to catalyze some money and see if investors in California want to invest in California. So, what if we did and raised, say,$5 billion a year and we can bond it so there's no cost to the state? There's a way to do that, the way that you structure these types of opportunities. The idea being bottom line is that we can take the money that otherwise would be just thrown into the general fund and we can monetize it and put it back into invest in our communities and allow investors to keep their money in California. So it's like a double whammy. So that's what that's what we were trying to get to with a disaster investment fund. Um, there's a lot of interest in it.

Shawna 39:30

Yeah, I was gonna say, why isn't everyone over all over this?

Steve 39:34

Because of Gavin.

Shawna 39:35

Why is this not yeah? Why is this not number one?

Steve 39:39

Take this on after what happened with 797. So they're waiting for the next administration. Because here's the thing over six years, let's assume you or seven years before the tax deferral if you were able to roll over five billion dollars a year for set over seven years. That's 35 billion. We've asked for 33 billion from the feds. We've already financed it, and we're gonna wait around another five years for that money anyway. So we can do that internally. We don't have to worry about DEI and all the other crap that they want to burden it with, you know, and then you just get a smaller grant amount from the federal government to be able to fill up the stuff that isn't investable because most of the stuff is investable, at least from a certain perspective. So and that's what the battle really is about. Is it is it gonna be a grant or is it gonna be investable? You know, we have the same problem. I don't know if people are tracking, I don't think anybody is, is the same thing's happening with uh the Olympics and the car-free Olympics right now. And yeah, so Metro has gone and asked for$2 billion worth of grants to buy buses for the Olympics, saying we need to have all these extra buses. Same thing that we did with CDBG, and they started with 3,000 buses and they went down to seven, 2,700, then they went down to 1,750 buses. And nobody said this, but and this is the underlying thing. It's just like the concern from DC about the CDBG money is that that money is just literally going to go and replace things that we didn't invest in in the first place. So that money is not it, it's going into like for DWP, where they are putting money into you, you know, contracts and pensions instead of actually investing in the infrastructure that they're supposed to be investing in. The result is that the federal government comes in and rebuilds the entire infrastructure and LA gets off the hook, and they don't want that. Same thing with Metro. 1750 buses for the Olympics would be almost replacing the entire bus fleet that Metro has right now. They were asking for 50% more than the buses we had today. They were gonna replace the bus fleet and add a thousand. Like this is the problem with LA, Shauna. This is where we've got run into this problem. It's not just the CDBG, it's just this expectation that we make an ask and we're gonna get a grant for it. And then if we don't get it, it's like, oh, it's Trump's fault or anywhere but California. Not the ridiculousness of what we're actually asking for.

Shawna 41:50

The call is coming from inside the house.

Steve 41:52

It's realism. Yeah, it's this exactly the call inside the house, as you keep saying. Yep.

Shawna 41:57

Yep.

Steve 41:58

Okay, did that answer your question? I know it's probably more than three minutes.

Shawna 42:01

No, no, but that was an excellent explainer. I like I said, this has come up a few times um where people are trying to understand these things because, you know, again, this is stuff that, you know, most folks, this is not on our radar. Why would we ever be thinking about this? But now we are, especially those who are have been heavily engaged in trying to support the town's recovery, including, you know, um a lot of people I know doing the kind of work that I've been doing. We're all doing our thing in our own corners and our through our own channels. That's like keep saying everyone has a role to play.

Steve 42:32

In the government space, they call it FSL, right? Federal, state, local. And what you need to do is you need to have people who can speak the languages of all three, right? Right. Because they're all having to interact. And what you're seeing, the tension that you're you're that everyone is seeing, but nobody's explaining, is that the federal state and locals are not talking to each other. You think this because they're all political and they should have relationships, that they should all be interacting. But I think we saw with Eric Swalwell, what happens at DC doesn't translate to California, or so they say. And I think, you know, you also have a I and I don't buy that, by the way, but I think you have more of this misalignment where I've been in DC and I've talked to statewide elect or you know, electeds or office holders, and they have no idea what's going on in on the ground. I've talked to people in Sacramento, and they don't understand what's happening necessarily in district. Congress, same thing. Like they go to certain people in these districts that they talk to, but they're not getting the full picture. And so what you what the frustration that our the electorate is feeling is, and this is where you say that, well, DC is disconnected, or you know, remember the LA Times had that um piece when they were trying to justify the CEO and Measure G back in November about that the the survey of Los Angeles and the idea that the majority like 70% of people in Los Angeles feel that the government exists for interests, not for themselves. It's because the interests of the groups that are communicating with the electeds and there isn't that that uh that translation between the different levels and i think that that's what you're when you're talking about that tension that's the essence of the tension and how do we how do we get beyond it uh people who can speak the different languages like you're right no but not just yes yes yes yes but not just that it's also getting who correct okay this is what you want now here's what you can realistically get not I'm gonna just ask for it because that's just what it is and it doesn't matter no no like people need like that's what we did from the start Shauna like we said this is what Trump's gonna say here's what we need here's how we can get there and that's why when we put it out there and all of a sudden everybody started paying attention in March everyone's like well this is what Lee Zeldin's been asking for. Well no shit very clear it's been on the ground we've had it the whole time because if you listen to the different people you can give everybody what they want the problem is is that nobody wanted to listen to each other it's true and let's hope that we get there sooner than later because this is it like I mean it was the 12th hour last year.

Shawna 45:14

Now it it's you know as you and I have discussed so much of the ship has I know so much of the ship has already sailed and now it's just you know what else can we what else can we figure out how how to salvage what we've got left.

Steve 45:30

Well you know the battle is is about what's happening what's going to happen.

Shawna 45:34

And like why are we still playing small ball on so many levels because when everybody else is in the big leagues it's it's kind of maddening but here we are. Should we talk about what's happening on the West side and some of the parallels and what's going on I thought it was kind of interesting that you know Lindsay Horvath is still pushing for this rebuild authority and for they won't give it to her.

Steve 45:53

I know and for a CRD um well here's the thing here's the thing that they that nobody's saying and I didn't realize it until the conversation over on the West side but the the Palisades really you know unless they're gonna get a waiver from HUD which they possibly can to you know bypass the 70% requirement which means they're gonna have to give it concessions the the real way to do this is because of Altadena and its mixed mixed economic situation plus the age of the retirees being so high in Altadena that if you take the two areas and combine it under a countywide authority you're gonna get more deployment of those CDBG dollars with that with less constraints or less waivers. And so I think that that's a point that Lindsay's trying to get to especially as she's trying to put herself in position to be the CEO. As I've said for over a year now the road to the CEO runs through the rebuilds so yeah that's not always everything but you know I think you know the mayor has their own rebuilding team and they she has a div a deputy mayor who's really responsible for all this but I think that there's too much there's too much concern about whether she's gonna be the one to survive or whether it'll be a different administration right now that I think you know you're seeing she's trying to do it but she she just doesn't have what it takes to get all the way there yet. And there's too much politics on the city side it feels cleaner from the county because you know Lindsay's gonna get that district uh that seat again and you know Catherine's not going anywhere for two more years. They can establish those authorities with a lot more you know support than you're otherwise getting at the city right now.

Shawna 47:45

There's still too much insecurity over there to be resting tens of billions of dollars on right you know yeah yeah there is I think um there just there's so many parallels it's like on one hand I think they're a bellboat for us and then on another we are for them with how uh just because of our volume right like I was comparing their rebuild to ours and it's just again the volume because we have such significant volume because we we lost you know not that to diminish in any way what happened there but um there's just so much there's so many structures 9,000 structures so much to be done for rebuilding here. So it's like you know I think we've rebuilt uh 43 homes so far. We have 43 new homes up and um in comparison the palisades has two but I believe that you know percentage wise it's not too far off. It's just a matter of you know there's a lot more gone here. But I also you know the thing that they're fighting on like I was you know Jeremy Padaur who um did the they let us bird rally in the Palisades that I I spoke uh at for the anniversary you know he's been really savvy on social and you know a lot of videos talking about you know what's going on and carrying the torch for his community and one of the things that they're really pushing against is the sales tax on the rebuild that like the state is gonna make a stands to make a billion dollars just on sales tax on this rebuild and like cool so it's you know it's a great money making mechanism to uh burn down and then you have to rebuild an entire town uh on multiple levels right how many times have we talked about the booming disaster economy that everyone but the fire survivors is getting rich off of well and Shauna like if even if they don't directly you know once the money comes in to the Palisades or to Altadena that means that money shifts from those areas to other areas in the county and you know or the city you know and it's just this is just a money grab look I've been told that a couple of the districts in the county are saying well we have a disaster too we have an economic disaster and we need to be getting money too and we need to be shifting money from where Altadena is to our districts and you know everybody sitting there saying there's all this money coming in you know and that is why I I really wanted to bring a mechanism in place where we can bypass both the city and the county because I think that's the you know that that would change the whole complexion of this thing.

Steve 50:15

And you know but again then the scary part is is you get la 28 which in and of itself can't even function. I mean it's just the levels of incomp you know I don't want to say incompetence because I don't think it's incompetence. I just think it's lack of leadership in this city in this state is just so mind-boggling it's frustrating and and I don't believe it can't be this bad and yet here we are here we are I don't know some days I don't even you know I don't know what to say some days I'm just tired. Um oh I'm exhausted I know exhausted we all are we all are we have to keep pushing because we do this is the moment right this is when you push through I know 100% people are listening yeah people out there are saying you know what what they're saying makes sense what they're doing is right and there's nobody willing to take the fight because they're all afraid of the machine going back to the gubernatorial even where Maehan could have done it his consultants weren't going to do pushback against the machine because they want to be in California politics down the road and anybody who goes against labor or the machine in Sacramento is going to be kicked out except for the fact if you beat them you get to dictate the terms but they're more afraid of losing they are winning and I think it's that fear of failure because for whatever reason I can't explain it that is holding people back here in California it's holding back our elected it's holding back our public officials it's holding back us being able to step out and do the right do what needs to get done yeah and I think that's it doing what needs to be done that still isn't happening campaign you know yeah yep when are you gonna run for office Dave after you look I I can see the words I just you know me I'm not the guy who's gonna have to be rah rah rah in the community. It's just not my put me in the background and I'll go crack heads and get stuff done but you know if I it was funny someone asked me that question the other day and the answer is in the right setting this would have been the perfect election for someone like me because I'm a shit disturber and I don't mind going against the grain. But in four years you know if I was running for governor for instance it the the situation might not be the same. And so you you have you know it goes back to Bill Gross's line right you know time you gotta have the product you gotta have the team and you gotta have the moment and the you can't control the moment. Right it's true you can't look at Antonio right if the situation today was four eight years ago and Gavin wasn't in the race Antonio would be governor right now would have been governor that's true.

Shawna 53:22

That's true.

Steve 53:23

I mean he was the guy I mean we talk about Becerra being you know the the first Latino governor of California Antonio ran against a white guy he could have been but it wasn't historic enough at that time all of a sudden it's historic like that's the thing that I'm struggling with. It's not nothing against Becerra. It's that it's just the conflation of what they're doing with him is the part that's so fascinating and so galling at the same time it is galling well let's try and wrap it on a positive note before you go to small business shout out okay going on I know but like give give us something positive what what should we be excited about something this is it the positive thing is that we are having an effect Shauna yeah it is it is it is I mean look at they're talking about the stuff that we've been talking about finally getting there. And whether it by hook or by crook it's working it's taking a minute but it's happening. But that's politics we don't dictate the timing it's true it's true.

Shawna 54:27

It's a matter of you know we just got to keep it up nose to the grindstone even on the days you're really tired just got to do it.

Steve 54:33

You're at the table now now now becomes the tougher part. Now people start coming for you.

Shawna 54:38

Yeah that's true.

Steve 54:39

Well well that's positive that's a positive note Steve thanks for that I look I I'd rather that than not because it means right for sure.

Shawna 54:48

That's what I I joke when you know anytime I have my haters I'm like oh good I've arrived clearly I'm talking about people they don't care about correct I'm clearly doing something if it strikes that much of a nerve with some people you know great then good I'm gonna keep pushing and I'm gonna keep you know being a bit of a disruptor and uh pushing some boundaries because somebody's got to do it. You know I I say all the time at the end of the day it's like everything I do and I know you feel this way too it's like it is for this town including the people that hate me. Like you you may not love the messenger but um I'm still fighting for you and your parents and your families and your kids to be sure that we all have somewhere to come home to because personally on a very personal selfish note uh I would love to be able to go home. And right now that's just not really feasible. So yeah and then I'm not alone. So that's why we keep we we push on fight on say in what your home looks like yeah a hundred percent I want to know that when I call 911 someone's coming I want to know that when my neighbor calls 911 someone's coming well that's why you need to have a budget for police to tie it all back together but we won't go there. Yeah well it's not it's about allocating it's not about that it's about proper allocation and maybe they don't need more military paramilitary maybe they don't need more paramilitary setups but maybe they actually just need operators and and deputies. Yeah 100% I'm with you on all that um small bit shout out I have a good one today um last week um Tyler Wells who owns uh the very fabulous Betsy on Mariposa um opened up his new little side project um to accompany Betsy bar Betsy uh which has been in the work since before the fire but obviously like everything kind of got shut down um it he took over the space two doors down from um uh Betsy um formerly Bernie um that used to be Mary Falconham's floral shop which I loved I loved Mary Falconham she she passed away uh right before the fire um so anyhow and and he left on the window when you go to bar Betsy he left on the window the Mary Falconham floral shop which I love that it's a little nod to her it is nice there's a nice it's just a sweet little nod nod to her um and the beautiful things that she created there. But um bar bar Betsy is an all-day concept kind of open from the morning till the night it's like very ish to ish um a really beautiful light bright space uh wood lined like Betsy um a lot of you know really thoughtful farm driven um uh you know uh small plates um they've got a beautiful pastry program they've got an amazing not surprising when you think about Tyler's Roots with handsome coffee an amazing coffee program um another great natural wine program um they've got you know a phenomenal pastries they've even got a lot of uh gluten free options there's a gluten free scone there's some gluten free cookies um they've got some breakfast plates some brunchy plates sweet savory um gosh I had like some really standout grits the sandwiches would sadly I can't really eat look fantastic the bread is all baked in house looks fantastic um and worth noting an all-woman uh or you know uh kitchen team leading the the charge there it's nice good vibes in there so we actually had our BA office hours which of course are every Wednesday 11 to 1 at rotating local altadina spots um and you can find that on our Instagram if you're looking for it the schedule but um that was like really fantastic we met there uh yesterday with about a dozen Altina folks uh who were coming and going and um it was great so I'm gonna give another little uh shout out and that's to uh June Bug Tattoo they were located in the same uh little plaza as um Pizza Venice which sadly you know was decimated um so they've relocated to 4315 Eagle Rock Boulevard um they're another woman owned collective they do beautiful work um I see all the time people getting like beautiful Altadena remembrance tattoos there they run a lot of specials and I just want to give them a shout out too so that's it awesome that was the shortest shout out we have okay I know all right did we hit an hour until next time yeah we just nailed it we nailed it so what what's our new tagline hang on oh oh well we have a few but we were joking that our outro should be you know don't forget that you heard it here first we heard it here first because everything that we talk about here or Steve writes in his sub stack or I'm discussing in our group somehow lands you know out in the out in the universe uh not long after we do so yes don't forget that you heard it here first what is it what do we always say we left the world of coincidences a long time ago yes we did so until the next time thanks uh for listening we appreciate you if um if you need us you know where to find us indeed and uh we'll see you next time bye now